Wolves: Can’t Live With ‘Em, Can’t Live Without ‘Em

Wolves: Can’t Live With ‘Em, Can’t Live Without ‘Em


Predators are a wicked conservation problem because they don’t return direct benefits to people. In fact, they can cost money to live alongside. They can scare people. They can cause trouble. There’s an opportunity for Norway to really lead the way in terms of protecting a species like wolves. But I think the deeper problem is how polarized this conversation has become. It’s really more of an argument among people than an argument between people and wolves. By the early 1900s wolves were more or less extinct in all of Western Europe, driven out by government programs that rewarded people for killing them. In the decades that wolves were not around, people adapted to their absence. In Norway in particular they changed the way they herded sheep. And so when the wolves made their way back, all of a sudden, humans were faced with the possibility of having to change what now seemed like very long-standing traditions. In almost any system that they live in, wolves are top predators, so they have a positive impact on the ecosystem. But those kinds of impacts aren’t being seen quite as dramatically in Europe, mostly because the landscape is so much more human dominated. From a conservation perspective, it’s still an incredible success story. But there’s a very vocal minority of people, concentrated in rural Norway, who feel a deep sense of injustice that they were being asked to bear a disproportionate burden of wolf recovery. For instance, some farmers are switching from raising sheep to raising cows which are less vulnerable to wolves. Some are changing their herding practices. Which might sound like, “of course, that’s easy,” but farming is a difficult business, and that represents to some people a pretty dramatic change. All of those initiatives are in part funded by the government, and helping to resolve the conflict on a practical level. On a deeper level though, there’s just a very baked in resentment toward so-called city people who are seen as getting away with supporting wolves, and not having to deal with the consequences of wolf recovery. Farmers don’t necessarily want to see wolves driven out of Norway again. They’re, in fact, surprisingly supportive of some wolves being present on the Scandinavian peninsula and want to see this species thrive. We have to figure out how to share the inevitable burden that comes with living with predators. It can’t just be the people who are experiencing the most direct effects paying the price. It has to be a country or region as a whole sharing that burden equally. And whether that means sharing the financial costs, or sharing it in some other way, that, in the end, is the toughest conservation nut to crack.

100 thoughts on “Wolves: Can’t Live With ‘Em, Can’t Live Without ‘Em

  1. You can continue down the rabbit hole and watch more animal documentaries in one playlist here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br_yTGa70Wg&list=PLDamP-pfOskPXuFmUf0czgBJ-MIXDXi8Z

  2. This might be pretty hard to… Keep a life of human with the wolf… Agree to keep the farm safe from predator… But not agree to make the wolf existing disappear… It is to controlling the balance of ecosystem…

  3. I’ll take paying extra to rebuild the ecosystem than paying extra to pay for someone else’s children… just saying.

  4. I never considered that wolves being brought back would have consequences. I know that that's very conceited and spoiled of me, but I never really thought about how the people who live around there do actually have to deal with the wolves.
    I still think the wolves should be able to live there, but the people need to be considered too.

  5. humans have a bad habbit of doing something to quickly solve a problem and then regretting it later. although predators munching on livestock is obviously an issue, i wish we would have had the foresight not to hunt them to the endangered state that they are in. Hopefully we can learn from this and look before we leap. because every time humanity does this, generations down the line, it becomes a HUGE issue. we need wolves as annoying as they can be.

    here in Michigan the white tailed deer are out of control because the native wolf populations were killed and driven off. and now people die very frequently from hitting deer and deer cause thousands of dollars in damage because there are just too many of them and we humans don't tend to hunt deer as a primary meet source.

    it's a delicate balance and the answer isn't going to be easy to come to. it's going to have to come at the expense of some people because of the mistakes past humans have made.

  6. Ik in some African countries where lions and other predators are a problem the goverment helps get the farmers dogs that are trained to protect livestock and the result are majorily positive.

  7. How to stop the problem… stop sending food to the cities… then we dont need as much farm land.
    Let the hipsters starve

  8. I just kinda think that Humans, through our evolution and now our stronger ability to learn, were made to maintain the ecosystem and do things like prevent overpopulation, but now we’ve overpopulated and there’s a huge chunk of us that haven’t evolved past the monkey stage

  9. It’s not predators or wolves that are the problem, it is that there are too many human beings taking up all the space. It may become time to cull a few billion human beings in the future in order to give wild animals space to live.

  10. I live in the biggest and the safest city in America. NYC. But I do support wolf restoration. I understand why rural folks feel like they get the short end of the stick. As someone who lives in a city it sucks that my vote for president is only worth a fraction of what a rural Wyoming vote is. So there are times when those in the city get shafted and times where those in the country get shafted. These American issues might not be the same in Norway. Nevertheless I too would support a cost sharing plan that would alleviate some but not all of the cost of loss of livestock etc.

  11. What a garbage feelie video.
    Didn't even explain WHY wolves should be come back in terms of the ecosystem.

  12. No, for the sake of Norway's economy, no, do not bring back wolves. Norway makes all of its money of selling oil and in 30 years time they'll run out. Meaning they'll be a significantly poorer state. Norway cannot afford to have wolves eating their produce.

  13. There was once a time in the 1800s,1900s and 200s we're everyone thought these "monster's" we're needed to be brought to extink.and that was a bad idea.

  14. Well it's people's fault, we're taking away their natural habitat and their food and they have no choice but to eat what they can to survive. I feel no sympathy towards the farmers, people shouldn't be so greedy and constantly build and build and destroy and take away.

  15. Well Sweden recently annouced that they raised the minimum number of wolves to 300. But the wolves in scandinavia is till terrible inbreed though.

  16. Thank you for this video, I love wolves, they are our national symbol of freedom (Chechen people) I wouldn't mind being a cowboy in Norway helping farmers… Just a thought.

  17. You do know animals don't exist just to serve people, right?
    Like, animals can live without us profiting from them

    Why is this a conversation??

  18. Wolves aren't the problem its humans..humans invading wolves territory and taking land that doesn't belong to them…wolves were there first not humans…humans should not expect mother nature to bend to what they want…humans should have to bend to mother nature's rules

  19. I’m ashamed to be a Norwegian when i think about how our goverment handles the whole wolf thing.
    EVERY person i’ve met who don’t want wolves here have never been able to come up with a resonnable argument for why they should go extict. Not a single one.
    Yes i’m a "cityperson" but that changes nothing.
    The repeating argument has been loosing money to wolves because of lost sheep. But from all the sheep that get’s killed during a year by preditors, the wolf only takes 7% of them.. the wolverine takes 30-40%. So why is it only wolves they attack? Why is it "the big bad wolf"?
    Will they try to make the wolverine, lynx and eagles go extinct too when they are finnished with our wolves??
    Smh
    Wolves deserve to be there much more than those greedy fuckers do.
    (Edit: Sorry for grammar and spelling mistakes. English is my second language)

  20. I just have a question, not for just wolves, but every animal.

    Why..? Why does humanity think it's alright to drive other existing animals out because of what they want? People have made alot of animals extinct…

    Just think about it. You're already fighting for food with your own species, hard right? Now add a strange species trying to kill you, your home is growing smaller, your family is growing smaller.
    You go after some easy looking prey, but are chased away. With others of your species is killed.

    All because of that other species.
    It's horrible.

  21. Lady shut the fuck up don’t even think about killing that that is just selfish we need to use our power for good and not greed

  22. I do care about wolves they always been persecuted throughout history but it's just what humans are we're kind of selfish sometimes but I can't see why some people don't think that way but we should live beside with nature again

  23. Wolves deserve so much better. They are not the bad guys. They hunt for need we hunt for greed. #Protectwolfwildlife

  24. I love wolves there my favourite animals we can't let this happen we must fight for the existence of wolves WOLF ARMYYYYY!!!

  25. I think there are to many humans. Maybe we should do some human hunting season. As there is a lot of useless people I can think of. But that's my opinion most likely we meet kill off the wild live one day. As humanity is distinctive and the biggest threat to all living things on this planet.

  26. Allow people to pay exorbitant fees to hunt a couple of them every now and then when the population can take the loss and you will have more than enough money to pay for preservation and save them

  27. The hunters are so careless
    If I can talk with all of the hunters I will say
    Me: hunters, what do you think, about being a wolf, no! You don't wanna get killed right?.. Than stop killing animals, you only worth the money,
    You dont care about
    Earth

  28. I love wolf's
    They should get to live and not to die. Wolf help keep deer plashun down and rabbits and things that would take over

  29. How about rabies? Japan is an island nation and for more than 50 years is clean about rabies but still the government is alert about it. Japan's original subspecies of wolf is also extinct.

  30. I live on czech-slovakian borders. I've grown up in the middle of nowhere, how it can be seen by many people from normal cities. There's woods,
    protected landscape area of White Carpathians, meadows and fields all around. On the other side of 'our' hill, there are sheep, on the next hill there are horses, well, there are horses everywhere, 'cuz the woods are unrideable by cars, same as many of our roads. Wolves has never left Slovakia and I love wolves, even I know how clever and hard to manage they can be, but our farmers always have had the things needed for it here. Two fences plus electrical fence, only for horses, who can fight and are smart enought to kick and bite. For sheep, we have special trained dogs. They're not for petting, but they are great. One of them once escorted me back home, when I got lost. With his human, for sure, but he knows his land very well. In Czechia, wolves are slowly comming back after a hundred years from being expelled from the country. As a animal lover and someone who cares for the woods and nature very deeply, I watched all the cases around angry farmers getting their sheep killed. People being afraid to go to forest, because "there are bears and wolves," but we, people from my area, we know what it is to go to sleep with a predator next door. And so, when a bear crossed the boundaries and wandered around, people asked by tv redactors was like "meh, there's a bear and what's wrong with that?" It only needs the system to support local farmers, so they can live on from their bussiness and tell people the truth and how to behave with large carnivores at their backs. People just tend to get hysterical over nothing, that's it.

  31. Wolf are a majestic creature, so mysterious yet and so well known but yet we still dont know much about them

  32. Hunters kills wolves
    Starvation kills wolves
    Territory wolves kills wolves
    Bad Weather kills wolves…
    R.I.P. Wolves 🐺
    Later on too much human…

  33. see there's a fine line between it, If there are way too many wolves and its actually causing more than just one or two animals going missing every once and while then I suppose although I don't support it, Putting up rewards for hunting them. but when it gets back to normal you stop. If you don't its gonna cause more problems. Deer and other animals hunted by said animals will rise quickly (especially rabbits) And will cause problems as well. We do need to step in sometimes but other than those times with overpopulation of certain species that cause problems (I don't know how common it is but I'd guess every 5-10 years) We shouldn't interfere other than scaring them off or hunting one or two that have been picking off livestock for a few weeks.

  34. This is sad. Wolves and other predators keep the ecosystem in balance. If there weren’t any predators, deer and other prey would easily over populate.

  35. Haha nice animation. Bit they kill livestock to survive. We can buy amzthing amd eat more we need. They are starving.

  36. The fact that wolves kill prey they could find for their pack is like taking care of your family. Look at this way what if you were working hard at your job but not getting enough pay to feed your family so you decide to get another job that is easy and simple and it gets you by. That's like wolves going after livestock. It's easy and simple and it gets them by. Now they also do good by controlling deer population and unlike wolves we destroy our lands. So who's the real bad guy?

  37. In case anyone was looking for it, I believe I found the music used in the video: https://www.audionetwork.com/browse/m/track/ravens_120936

  38. Wolves are kinda like the democrats of
    animal world. there always fuckn
    stuff up but we kinda need them

  39. When you think about it we are a MAJOR predator and EVERY ANIMAL is scared of us so what do you think about that. Hmmm.

  40. You need italian (abruzzese or calabrese) shepherd dogs. In fact, in southern Italy wolves never went extinct, and they survived pretty well until today. So, the italian sheep farmers have breed these two very strong types of shepherd dogs (abruzzese and calabrese), that are perfectly capable to deal with wolves and keep them away. 4 or 5 abruzzese (or calabrese) shepherds can protect a whole flock and keep away an entire pack of wolves. Strong shepherd dogs are a cheap, perfectly natural, and working solution to keep wolves away without having to kill them.

  41. This reminds me of the sour attitudes of farmers in the U.S. Midwest toward the return of this miraculous animal (to which we owe so much). It is hard to balance the empathy I feel for these hardworking people with the maturity they lack in failing to recognize the dire need for us to do right by ourselves as a species for once, and put then needs of the wolf ahead of our profit incentive. I do wish that government would step in and reimburse them for their lost livestock, however. That seems like it ought to be a no-brainer.

  42. Save the wolves!!!!!❤❤❤❤❤❤ no more killing wolves!!! Save them save the animals!!❤💖💖❤💖❤💖❤❤💖💖💖❤💖❤💖💖❤💖❤❤💖❤💖💖❤💖❤❤💖❤💖💖❤💖❤💖❤💖❤💖❤💖❤❤💖❤💖

  43. Wolves just try to survive in this ecosystem that the humans are destroying day by day. Global Warming, decrease in food, etc. They are part of the food chain. The food chain is like dominoes. If we have the wolf become extinct, the world could fall apart without this natural predator. Their prey would increase in population and even become invasive.

    Yes, the wolf may kill some of a farmers livestock and ruin hard work, but that’s life. /pls don’t hate me now/

  44. Well now for us Wolves are kinda endangered and I clearly don’t see wolves at all I haven’t seen one in my whole entire life. That’s just depressing :/

  45. But what if the farmers are already the beneficiaries of a great deal of government largesse in the form of abysmally low grazing fees on land owned by the public, infrastructure improvements such as fencing and water pipeline on that land, predator killing paid for by the government of more common animals like coyotes, low interest loans, drought relief payments, and supplemental livestock feeding to name some of them. Add to that payments for co-existing with native wolves. Cattle and sheep are the exotic interlopers shown to damaged biotic integrity. Is there any point where we decide the subsidies and costs are so high it really doesn't make sense to have livestock on these lands? This is the situation in the Western US.

  46. We can live alongside them, we can live in the same enviroment with animals like them, humanity can do it, we have the ways to do it, we can adapt to this and find a way to coexist with all enviroments, we live like this for thousands of years, so why not do it again?

  47. It's a bit rich of humans to say that wolves are pesky, useless and dangerous. They've been around before humans came along. Now we do lots of land clearing for agriculture and grazing, we encroached and destroy their habitats and what do we do? We kill them to near extinction. Where I come from, there is a 60% loss of biodiversity because of Iand clearings and it's continuing. The earth is undergoing its sixth great extinction of flora and fauna from human activities like climate change. We hate flies and rats but without them we will drown in our mountains of garbage. Every animal has a purpose in the ecosystem or we will live in a world out of balance. But trust humans to stuff things up.

  48. What the USFWS wolf reintroduction program in Yellowstone NP has shown is top predators are critical components to a retaining a balanced ecosystem. In YNP, the wolves drove the abundant elk populations away from the riverbeds allowing delicate foliage to flourish and dramatically increased habitats, spawning grounds and food sources for dozens of species.

    Outside the protections of the national park the wolf packs drove elk away from the habitats guided elk hunters had become accustomed to. The guided elk hunting industry is a powerful tourism-based organization in these regions and successfully lobbied resource managers and politicians to eliminate wolf protections.

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