TDN Writers’ Room Podcast, Episode 6: October 2, 2019

TDN Writers’ Room Podcast, Episode 6: October 2, 2019


Good afternoon it is 3:23, Wednesday
October 2nd, this is the TDN Writers’ Room podcast. I’m Joe Bianca associate editor
at the Thoroughbred Daily News. Steve Shrek I’m senior editor Thoroughbred
dealing who’s been here since 2003 and happy to make my podcast debut today.
Jonathan Green from DJ stable and also a partner at the green group Tax &
Accounting consultants. Brian DiDonato racing editor at the TDN and Managing
Partner of Franklin Ave equal. Good so we had a big weekend of racing last weekend
last weekend this weekend we’re really gonna get a clear picture of the
Breeders Cup obviously the headline I would say is
vino rosso was DQ in the jockey club gold cup with code of honor I think I
tweeted after the race that it was the worst disqualification I’d ever seen in
New York back off that just a little bit I’m gonna say it’s it’s the worst big
race DQ I’ve ever seen in New York and my issue with it was you know the
bumping I think happened at a time that it wasn’t crucial to either horses
momentum it was kind of outside the sixteenth pole and then after that any
contact I think was was pretty mutual and I don’t think it affected the
outcome of the race and it’s just it put a sour taste in my mouth cuz I felt like
vino rosso dug in so gamely throughout the stretch in that race and I thought I
rad actually ran a really great race being aggressive out of the gate and I
tweeted before I saw the DQ that he won that race on his own so I kind of left a
sour taste in my mouth but also like just watching Newark racing on a daily
basis that stuff is never punished that kind of hurting is really especially
with the Ortiz boys they like to hurt horses out and I hardly ever see it
punished and just to do it in a big race like that it it just didn’t it rubbed me
the wrong way you know I I didn’t really have a dog in the fight but it’s just
it’s tough to see the stewards decide something that razor thin and both
horses ran great it was a great horse race and it just it didn’t seem like the
way to decide that result anybody else have any thoughts on that
Hunter cent agree with you on everything you’re
saying there I think the biggest issue I have with the stewards one day it seems
like it could be a DQ another day it seems like maybe it’s not and grade one
race really wanted to come down to the horses it was such a great horse race
coming down the stretch I didn’t bet a nickel on the race so to be upset about
it as kind of surprising about me I don’t know what if you guys had a vested
interest in anything but it’s just one day it seems like it’s a different
answer and a great one you want that to be decided on the track and that in the
stewards booth in my opinion and I think you’re also talking about consistency
whether in any sport whether you’re talking about balls and strikes in
baseball or now with the new pass interference rule in football and in you
know this also transcends into our industry where you want to have
consistency and whether it’s a $10,000 claiming race or a grade one race the
other thing I there’s a takeaway from from that race guys was that you know
Todd Pletcher actually took the blinkers off you know row so in the rate before
the race and you have to wonder if he’s kicking himself after that saying gee if
the horse was you know lugging out a little bit and that’s why maybe if you
had the blinkers he just would have been focused that’s just a little bit more
and therefore it wouldn’t even be an issue in any sport I think you want to
keep it out of the hands of the officials so maybe if that horse just
had stayed course with the blinkers that he would be the winner but I think just
like the Kentucky Derby everyone assumes and understands that the best horse you
know won the race even if they weren’t actually pronounced the winner at the
end and I definitely agree that I would never have taken that horse down and I
kind of think Cotabato hung a little bit like he he ran a great race but he had
every opportunity to go by he never really broke stride or anything so yeah
that was my issue with it is that it didn’t seem like he his momentum was
ever stopped or he was knocked onto his wrong lead or anything like that I think
he did he did hang and they both ran a great race so I don’t want to be too
critical of code of honor but I agree with you that he had every chance to go
by and that bump like the bumps that were vino rosso is fault I think
happened at the 16th pole or earlier whereas everything after that I felt
like was pretty mutual and it just it stinks to see such a great race decided
by the stewards and you know he kind of goes to what we talked about I don’t
remember if it was last week or the week before this just there’s very little
transparency and there’s no there’s no official explanation at least in the
fell when the guy goes into the the booth for a little bit comes back he’ll
usually give you a reason or if he doesn’t he says the call stands you
assume that that means there wasn’t enough evidence to overturn it but at
least someone is forward facing it has to explain it and especially now that
they have the the referee expert in the booth every single time so you least get
a clearer picture of what the refs are looking at there and the stewards room
it’s just it’s so vague and it’s so far away from everybody and it’s just it
doesn’t I don’t know it doesn’t lend itself well to thinking this was this
was a well thought out or well you know that it’s it’s hard to figure out
exactly what’s DQ worthy and what isn’t when you never get an explanation for
anything I think the the jockeys involved a few switch jockeys on the two
horses I think the result may be different I don’t think Johnny V comes
down if he’s on that’s another thing I think they play favorites being DQ Don a
lot of Santana horses the last couple of summers feel like they pick on him and I
feel like I rat gets picked on a little bit as well
how about Johnny V objecting against them as well I mean you can’t blame from
everybody no no I was gonna say you just set the record for the grated steaks
wins and he gets the respect of everybody and I just that that it just I
think we all agree with how frivolous the call was but if he was the one if
it’s the other way it just seems like maybe it doesn’t happen yeah and it was
it was one of those things where I was watching it at home and I saw like one
head-on and I walked out of the room was I asked nothing and then I come back and
I see Jackie in the winner’s circle but there was no there’s not gonna be any
appeal apparently from the owners were police table and st. Elias
from the owners of FINA Orozco so I guess they’re gonna let this one go I
think it is an interesting dynamic like you said with Johnny claiming foul
against a Pletcher horse the other news to come out of that race is coat of
Honor it was a little iffy for the couple days after the jockey club Gold
Cup whether or not he was gonna run in the Breeders Cup Classic earlier today
should McGee confirmed that he will be running in the Breeders Cup Classic and
it’s just I think that he had done enough regardless to win the
three-year-old championship I would have voted for him even if he hadn’t been put
up in the jockey club Gold Cup I do not have a vote let me just make that clear
but hypothetically speaking and he he’s done enough I think when it really
matters the most you know maximum security
he had his chances earlier in the year and he did well but code of honor when
you put together the runner-up finish in the Kentucky Derby that found a youth
the dwyer win the Travers and now beating elders in the jockey club gold
cup I think it’s gonna be tough for anyone to dethrone him but why not it’s
a six million dollar race why not try to put it to put it to bed he also
mentioned that they’re kind of going for the horse of the Year trophy as well now
and that’s I wanted to lead into that a little bit because we talked last week
about how interesting it was to have both a filly and a turf force as the
main contenders for the horse of the Year trophy it’s not usually that way
this late in the year and code of honor I think he might have a little bit too
much to do unless he wins the classic then it’s a totally different discussion
but there was another horse another Horse of the Year contender who ran well
and won on Saturday and midnight Vizu in the Belle Dame and she just put another
notch in her belt and her main competition it seemed before Saturday
was bricks and mortar so bricks and mortar I think is in a little bit of a
tough spot here because he is not gonna have a prep race before the Breeders Cup
and there’s no Breeders Cup race that I think really hits him between the eyes
distance wise because I think I think Chad Brown would agree I think most
people would agree that he’s best going between nine and ten furlongs you don’t
have that in a previous Cup you either have the mile or the my own half classic
sounds like chad is leaning towards the mile which is probably a little short
for him so what do you guys think do you think that code of honor can do enough
to usurp bricks-and-mortar and I be Zoo or is did midnight Vizu kind of come
close to locking that up on Saturday what do you guys feel I think it’s
pretty close right now I think I want to see code of honor win the classic if I’m
gonna consider most of the year I just want to see more on the resume and
obviously with these controversial DQ’s that he’s been involved with to kind of
may sway voters a little bit maybe think he doesn’t get as much credit as he
should then but going against a horse like midnight BC now you got three grade
one seven four seven these horses don’t seem to run campaigns like this anymore
she’s a bit of a throwback even looking at her from last year she hasn’t had any
time off really either but she seems like the clear-cut frontrunner to me
right now but I’d love to see either unite BC or
bricks-and-mortar take a shot in the classic and then really kind of put your
stamp on it but either of them have had brilliant campaigns and with the three
year olds and all the horses all being up in the air I feel like you kind of
you have to look somewhere else at this point
I think a I think you’ve gota honor wins the classic I think I’d give it to him
and I think if bricks-and-mortar won his race I’d give it to him but I think
midnight BC was kind of a leader in the clubhouse and assuming that she wins the
distaff I’d probably give it to her but I think you know I mean the Breeders Cup
decides it every year pretty much but I think especially this year it’s so murky
at this point that I think that’ll a lots riding on that yeah if you’re
looking at history to give you a guide of what the future is going to be in the
past 50 years you know we’ve had five Triple Crown winners in the past 50
years do you guys know how many Phillies were named horse of the year can’t be
more than a couple 3 3 C 2 2 2 okay the answer is six really so they’re almost
as many fillies that have won the horse of the urge as Triple Crown winners so
that’ll be that’ll be our stump the stud question of the day well because MIDI
music but no there have been six and and and it’s the names that you recognize
but interestingly enough they’re all older mares that have done it it’s part
of the grace sunyata Rachel Alexandra Zeri yeah you’d recognize them but but
it is you know even over the past 50 years I mean it’s won every decade okay
so you know you have to say to yourself the the deck is stacked against it might
be so and and is she good enough to be a once in a decade kind of Philly and I’m
not sure she’s quite as brilliant as you know agreed yeah and also the other ones
you mentioned like Rachel Sandra Havre de Grace they beat males I was a key
thing and midnight Bisou is stayed with her own sex throughout the year so I
think that is is gonna be factored in that she didn’t really step out of her
comfort zone but the consistency I think is what she has in her corner no
question about and I think if one of the two or three favorites for the classic
end up hitting the the wire first and actually winning not
getting too cute actually winning and standing in the winner’s circle you
would think that the the odds would be that they would also be horse of the
year it’s just a natural progression for them and it’s patterns like anything
else I remember when we were going for the for the Eclipse award this past year
with with jaywalk and you know people were we were nervous because newspaper
of record was equally as impressive on the turf as we were on the dirt and
people kept saying no no you guys when the Breeders Cup therefore the dirt race
therefore you’re gonna win the the Eclipse award and you’re never quite
sure until the the votes come out and I think the same thing would hold true
here if you get code of honor or even Brixham order to end up you know hitting
the wire first you would have to think they’d be the favorite going into the
going to the award Center even Mackenzie I mean he’s kind of been on and off a
little bit and he’s disappointed in a couple spots but I mean if he goes and
wins the Breeders Cup by five he’s got to be in the conversation I would think
yeah I’m sad that Bill’s not here by the way bill Finley our intrepid reporter is
sick today so that’s why he’s not on the podcast so a lot more room for the rest
of us to talk to him but he wasn’t here because we had a little bit of a debate
about Mackenzie and metolius I feel like natoli
has a pretty strong case for older dirt mail and I kind of wanted to poke a
little fun of him that Mackenzie lost to a son of hightail on Saturday at Santa
Anita and you know that’s why Bill’s not here but yeah I think Bryan makes a good
point of that this year especially it feels like the Breeders Cup is is
especially momentous in terms of deciding these championships and I think
that’s that’s what you want at this time of the year cuz nobody’s nobody’s gonna
duck anybody everybody everybody that’s in the conversation is gonna show up and
and bring their best race and I think that even after the Breeders Cup it
might be a little fuzzy so we’ll see what happens in the next month or so
one more race only to mention from from Belmont on Saturday we thought one of
the best races of the year was Imperial hint and forensic fire in the Vosburg
you know I it kind of reminded me a little bit of the midnight Bisou a late
clash and the person wins in which I think was the race of the year up until
that point I just thought it was it was a really interesting race because
friends a fire seems like a totally different horse at Belmont you know he’s
running from good races that other try but when he shows up a Belmont man when
I’m thinking I could think back to that Dwyer race last year when he took that
flight of late money and ran away so he’s a different animal there I was
surprised that it got only like a 103 buyer you know want to wait in 104 a
track that what didn’t seem particularly fast I thought it’d be much higher than
that but I really really gutsy effort by Imperial Han who was another one who’s
been a little bit of an in-and-out or this year he’s had a couple of dull
efforts but it seems like he’s back on his game now so I just want to give a
shout out to those two for putting on a show in the Belmont stretch on Saturday
it was nice just to see it decided on the track we talked about the jockey
Gold Cup and seeing a number come down after a great horse race and this was
just two really nice horses throwing down maybe friends to friar hung a
little bit to I don’t know if that’s too too critical of it but just Imperioli
interest ran such a monster race and it was great to see and I’m surprised to
what the number he got a 114 I think in the Vanderbilt yeah
so does this he had come back that late but I mean don’t want to read too much
into that though but definitely looking forward to seeing him back in the
Breeders Cup I loved him and the one at Del Mar a couple years ago he ran a
winning race in just a second best but yeah well see you definitely like
shipping out there at least Churchill maybe wasn’t his favorite track but
exciting horse for the rest of the year for sure let’s go to Brian on Imperial
and I will say I’m a little bit against imperial head in the Breeders Cup it
seems like he kind of needs his races spaced out he’s kind of famous famously
a tiny little horse I don’t know I just have a feeling he’s not gonna run his a
race in the Breeders Cup but I mean really one of the coolest horses in
training definitely yeah you gotta love like the small connections having a
horse like that and running up and just you know running them in every top spot
they can find everybody anybody else want to say anything about the weekends
races while we’re here yeah it’s an Anita seems like terrible to me it
didn’t really seem like anything interesting you know what I did want to
make one point about one horse isn’t he neither one horse I’m looking forward to
betting out of the races that sanity to last weekend beau recall I’ve been
following her since she’s come to America Brad Cox I’ve just he’s done
such a tremendous job with this filly I don’t think she wants to go the distance
of the filly Meritor if I’m dying to see her cut back to a mile take on Cole to
make one big run get a pace to to run that finally she’s gonna I think she
could run a huge race in the mile that’s what I’m looking forward to right yeah
all right so we’re gonna we’re gonna move on from last weekend there’s an
interesting new feature that we’re running new series we’re running on the
TDI and called what would you fix first and we had a we have a industry stalwart
every day trying to figure out what the most pressing problem what they would do
if they were in charge of racing on day one basically we had Craig burnick the
other day talked about the need for equi basis data to be free and accessible at
Kenney mcpeak talking I thought it was a good point about the the signal
distribution issues and well you know some states don’t have a t-dub use or
it’s impossible to set up one it’s just I agree with both of those so I wanted
to open this up to the floor and we’re all opinionated guys here we’re all big
racing fans and I wanted to see if anybody had any passionate pleas for the
racing world if they were in charge I think it’s kind of scary of how if you
asked 20 people to answer this question you might get 20 different answers and
that’s to me they’re my whole thing is public perception right now after the
whole situation at Santa Anita headlines in the New York Times justify justify
failed drug tests before winning Triple Crown
obviously misleading of when she could get to learn the whole story but I think
the cleaning up the drug testing has to be maybe the the biggest issue right now
to me that there just needs to be more money vested into it you need to start
weeding out cheaters people need to start they need to start making an
example out of people to kind of give us some faith in the public eye again maybe
and just the state to state the different medication rules everywhere
it’s a very complicated situation but there I feel like that at least maybe
could get us on the right track with the general public if you start cleaning up
your own house start catching some people that are doing some stuff wrong
at least start there but I mean it’s like I said I think to what you’ll get
twenty different answers from twenty different questions and Steve I concur
with the consistency rule especially we race in in seven different races and
seven different states I should say and you know the trainer’s have to actually
think about medications that they’re using on the horses even its therapeutic
medications literally twenty eight to thirty days in advance so you know it
really kills your flexibility as far as where to run or
you know can you run in this race or an extra just came up in this race or this
race came up light you know with only three horses and it do we want to try to
run for a graded and you’re almost you know you’re almost at a complete
disadvantage if you’re racing in a different jurisdiction so consistency is
huge as a race track on a race horse owner I should say
I concur completely I’ve got to take out I think is obviously a huge issue I mean
I got into the game as a horse player first and foremost and I think if you
were coming in fresh now you’d be crazy to start tonight teachers all about a
handicap and start betting races they’re just I mean there are better ways to
spend your time that are a little more beatable and I just don’t know how we’re
gonna compete long term with fantasy sports and sports wagering and all that
and poker and all these things and my other one is condition book stuff and
entries I think kind of the most eye-opening thing for new owners is you
think okay we’re scheduled to race this day we’ll enter and we’ll get to run and
it really doesn’t work that way it’s it can be very frustrating especially for
new owners and I think there are probably some better ways to manage the
horse population and find spots for horses no question so we changed you –
what would you fixed first and entry and 1a1 it’s like you know when the genie
comes out of the lamp and you say I’ll give you three wishes my first wish is
400 more wishes okay know what I think your point is well-taken especially for
people who are you know new to the game where they talk to the trainer the
trainer says your horse is gonna run on Saturday and I’m gonna see you there and
they invite all their friends and they get dressed up and and all of a sudden
the day before you know they get the email or the call from the trainer
saying no they they didn’t use the race what do you mean anything used the race
we’ve been pointing for this so it it is her a frustrating part of the part of
the game and that also blends into what Steve was talking about medication the
good news is bad news is we can’t run in New York the good news is this race in
Maryland that hopefully they’ll put off for another couple of days so I can get
you know this therapeutic drug out of our system but no excellent points you
know on what would you fix first I’m going to a little bit darker side of the
industry on what would you fix first and it’s a it actually you know rang true
when when I was just down at the Keeneland September say
and you know for many parts of this industry there’s a licensing procedure
if you want to be a trainer you have to have a certain amount of racetrack time
you take the test and then you’re you know you’re held up to a certain
standards jockeys the same way you get an apprenticeship you get your license
you get an apprenticeship you get to be a full-fledged jockey and the likes
owners you have to be licensed one aspect of the industry where you do not
have to be licensed at all is to be a blood stock agent so you can literally
put an ad you know on the internet and tag yourself as a black agent and you
have no fiscal or fiduciary responsibilities to your client now just
think about that you are basically managing their money and you have the
ability to buy horses based on your expertise and your say-so but you do not
have to disclose things to this client like by the way I own a piece of this
horse and I’m touting you or by the way you know there’s a really nice horse in
the sale that is being sold by XYZ consignment and then you go to XYZ
consignment and say how much do you think you’re going to get for that horse
a hundred thousand dollars okay if I guarantee you you get two hundred
thousand then you get the hundred and we split everything above a hundred
thousand those deals happen more regularly I mean they’re getting a lot
of head not so you know you see it and and yet there’s no fiduciary
responsibility and it’s completely an unregulated sector of the industry so if
we’re trying to encourage people to come into the business and buy young horses
at a sale and you know we encourage them spend their money spend their time and
their expertise and want to get involved and right off the bat they are being
turned over and and taken advantage of by these by these agents not all agents
there’s just a handful of unscrupulous ages but there’s no way to govern it
there’s no consistency there’s no transparency and these agents can kind
of run roughshod over over you know these new owners are coming to the
business or old owners you know we’re not you know we’re not divorced from
from that immediate situation but it’s to me it’s a travesty that new people
who come into the business that want to do the right thing and want to spend the
money the right way don’t have a chance to get a return on their investment
because they’re getting brought down a primrose path by these
agents that have no disclosure regulations whatsoever
involved in that why do you think that is why do you think it’s it’s so
deregulated I think it’s I think it’s just a part of the industry that you
know that that isn’t under anyone’s jurisdiction the jockey club has a
registration into their jurisdiction so that’s why you know with this hundred
and forty mayor proposal cap you know they have the right to do that because
it’s under their purview the racetracks and the states all have their
jurisdictions to you mandate certain you know criteria to become a licensed
individual whether to train our own or jockey or even backstretch employee but
the blood stock agency is still the Wild West
there’s nobody policing it at all and you know Brian and I are down there at
the at the sales and and you know we represent and are spending other
people’s money and thank goodness that that at least you have a conscience and
you can’t you know do things unscrupulously for your clients and and
therefore there’s you know they have a chance to at least spend their money on
a horse that may be worth that money the industry is tough enough as it is you
know with horses getting hurt getting sick not performing getting DQ’d I mean
there’s all kinds of hurdles that they have to overcome at least give people an
opportunity to spend their money the correct way and and not feel like that
they’re just getting turned over just because somebody else can make a quick
buck off yeah Brad you have any thoughts on that well let me just let me just
give you an example of kind of an unscrupulous situation and again you can
we can we can always cut this out if it’s too long but so just an example of
that is you know an agent who would come in and say you know like I said before
you buy a horse for a hundred and and and buy it before the the sale another
example is to go back to a consignor and say my clients are interested in your
horse and if I get them to buy the horse can I get a five percent commission for
that and it’s up to the consignor at that point to say yea or nay and a lot
of them will say no but there are enough of them out there where that will say
yes for it to be a common practice if the consignor
No then what does the agent do well the agent then goes back to his client and
says hey remember I was touting this really great horse Rio well you know
parenthetically I can’t tell you that I wasn’t getting a commission and that’s
why I’m off the horse now so I’m gonna make something up and say the horse
didn’t vet well now that rumor of the horse not
vetting gets around the sale and all of a sudden that’s we’ll wait a second I
like that horse too so it didn’t vet well now I’m questioning my vet or I’m
looking at the x-rays really closely now and saying what did we miss what as
opposed to I’m going in and buying this horse with complete confidence because I
didn’t hear that rumor that was basically a lie
that was set up because the the agent had to save face in front of his client so that’s why we fixed first all right
all that is a little bit above my pay grade but I just want to follow up on on
Steve’s point and it’s how it’s just kind of taken for granted in racing that
there are certain trainers that if they claim off another trainer the horse is
gonna be an entirely new horse and then you know vice versa if you claim off
certain trainers you’re expecting the horses form to plummet and I just it’s
such an accepted part of racing that you kind of don’t even really think about it
but when you actually do think about it like this is this is kind of morally Oh
an abomination and it happens every day you know in the claiming ranks horses
get dropped that and as a better you you kind of you kind of look for these
opportunities if a horse that’s dropping down you have a reason to believe the
horse isn’t gonna run its top race but I just think that’s the kind of thing that
is a little bit of a black eye that every single day in racing someone’s
trying to get rid of some horse someone’s trying to claim another horse
and you know move it up however they can move it up and I think that’s a big
problem just the public perception like you’re saying I’m saying you get even at
the day-to-day claiming races but now you’re seeing guys move horses way up
and then grade one race and then so many trainers – I don’t want to name names
but you think you have a race one at the 8th fallen this guy’s horse always seems
to re-break or get second wind getting kind of tired of saying stuff like that
– and I just feel like if you’re on Twitter or social media social media you
see people just going crazy every time these horses winds yeah somebody comes
up the ranks and it’s just the public perception just couldn’t be any worse my
eyes I will say Twitter has gotten a little out of hand with the conspiracy
theory yeah we had a horse and we really Twitter’s got nice family alarm we had a
horse in in Saratoga so there’s a big conspiracy theory that the two artis
brothers kind of like yeah yeah I don’t plan to chop it up and we had previously
written Jose Ortiz on a horse we got spun we had I rat on and people started
messaging me oh you know asking me like can you explain this as if yeah we just
handed in our chance to win the race for some kind of conspiracy or whatever it
was and then Jose ended up getting back on the horse anyway so it didn’t matter
but yeah I mean there are two sides to all that stuff but there’s definitely a
public perception issue yeah and just as a handicapper too it is frustrating you
know at certain times you feel like you know if there’s a certain train there
was a certain you know sorry it’s just from a handicapping perspective to it
feels like sometimes if there are certain trainers in a race off the claim
you don’t want to play you know you don’t even you know even bother cuz do
you trust the horse or do you not and if you do trust the horse the horse
is gonna be over bet it’s just it’s you kind of gets wet in circles a little bit
here trying to handicap the the trainers and just upsetting the betters who I
think are obviously in the big equation of the most important people in the
sport you want to keep them as happy as possible we’re all better as to and you
just you keep getting rubbed the wrong way in certain races like this I don’t
know some people might have tougher skin with me but it’s a point you’re just
gonna be frustrated like you said neither just passed the race or made you
start betting less races maybe to start betting certain kind of races but it’s
just nothing good is gonna come out of it basically yeah job no I think I think
you know without again without naming names you can look at racetracks and you
can say why would you ever bet at Monmouth between the takeout and between
you know the Trank the two trainers that dominate there there’s never any value
there that you can never really want to listen you saw of course that one at you
know twenty to one or I mean I know statistically it’s not as common but
there are reasons why it doesn’t happen that there was you know other racing
venues yeah Monmouth is a good example too because we’re you know are for those
who don’t know our our headquarters are in Red Bank New Jersey
like ten minutes away from Monmouth so it’s the kind of track that I would like
to support you know as the local home track but it’s just unbearable you know
it’s like 49% winning favorites like you said to trainers when everything maybe
even maybe even to jockeys like Paco and Nick Juarez basically dominate
everything it’s just it’s not a good product and at the end in the end of the
day’s kind of goes to what Brian was saying about take ou take out if you
don’t give people a good product that they feel like they have a reasonable
chance to make money on every day they’re gonna stop betting and I don’t
think I bet other than maybe Haskell day I don’t think I bet a single dollar at
Monmouth all meat and that’s that’s unfortunate because I would like to
support that but I just you know you have to make fiscal decisions and every
part of the business owner drainer horse player it’s just a shame that Monmouth
really could be considered maybe a top five racetrack in America just based on
aesthetics and how it looks and you spend an afternoon there it’s a great
atmosphere there’s people there there are young people there people are
excited about the races but just like you guys I’ll go to Monmouth I’m sorry
mama but I’ll bet any other track but I it’s one of my favorite places to be
though I love the place but just the product comes down to the product and it
just does in small fields and just like what you guys are saying it’s just not
not a good way to spend your money betting at least for me mm-hmm
I play Monmouth a lot but it’s always on the bet fair exchange yeah I do that’s
the only way to get an edge I feel like for me it’s as far as the what would you
fix first this is kind of its it’s not super I’m not hyper focused on any one
jurisdiction but I just think there needs to be less racing and-and-and and
fewer tracks and more consolidation like for there to still be like 20 25 tracks
running on a daily basis you look at some of these tracks and especially the
mid-atlantic I think is a good example where there is just it’s so cluster and
there’s so many tracks running basically around the same time basically competing
for the same horses it’s just it leads to short fields which again waters down
the betting product and I just I don’t want to take aim at anybody in
particular but I just think in general there is too much racing in America
right now compared to the demand I think there’s there’s oversupply and I just I
don’t think it matches up with how many horse players there are how many horses
there are is the full crop Keith keeps declining I just
there needs to be and again with others goes back to the lack of coordination
and racing and the lack of a national unified you know jurist Commission or
whatever it just there’s no there’s a very little you know coordination and
very little I guess cooperation I would say among these tracks and among these
states to create a better betting product because eventually people are
gonna get sick of this these short fields and these favorites and these
cheating trainers it’s just you know it’s not it’s not it doesn’t bode well
for the future I don’t think I think well it’s gonna kind of naturally I
think we’re going to continue to see tracks close and you know fall crops
maybe go down you know I hate to say it is yeah as young people in the industry
it’s not what you want to see or want to expect but I think the consolidation is
kind of a trend that will continue to see but maybe it’ll kind of find its
equilibrium humble kind of get to the right spot yeah and I think you know in
New York in the winter you know I love aqueduct I grew up going to aqueduct but
for them to only take like what ten days off for the entire winter it’s just
again it’s like it’s an unbearable product most of the time and I think
there might be other fixes for that too I think may be installing a synthetic
track for the winter so you can keep those turf horses around those cheaper
turf horses instead of either them going away for the winter or going down to
Gulfstream sorry there are other fixes there but I just needs to be less racing
man that’s just that’s the way I feel all right we’re gonna we’re gonna touch
on this weekend very quickly this I think like something like seventeen
graded stakes there’s like this is maybe fourteen on Saturday alone this this is
the last hurrah for everyone who wants to earn their pre ders Cup win and in
spot so there’s too much I think to go through and preview so I just wanted to
open it up to you guys and you know just I want I want to know what you’re
looking forward to most this weekend I’ll kick it off because I don’t want
you guys you guys stealing what I was but I I’m interested in the first lady
stakes on Saturday at Keeneland because I love a good old-fashioned East Coast
West Coast showdown going back to Tupac and Biggie this is uh this is the deck wine version
of that because you got rushing fall and you got vasilica to complete wind
machines rushing fall eight for ten I think lifetime and and vasilich
obviously has been a terrorist since being claimed by Jerry Holland or fur
and it’s a big field there’s other horses in there too it’s 14 horses cool
Moore’s got just wonderful shipping in whose I think on the rise and who knees
in there as well so it’s it’s by no means just down to those two horses but
I just love I love that clash of coast kind of angle and I’m interested to see
who comes out on top I’ll stay at Keeneland on Saturday we still haven’t
had the benefit of seeing with all months doing Saturday yet but I’ll stay
at Keeneland with Joe there and I’ll look at the Claiborne breeders Futurity
anytime you get to a big field to tear olds know in two terms right before the
Breeders Cup is always exciting and last weekend the TD and I did a story on
governor Morris who was super impressive first out at Saratoga granted he won in
the slop and ammo he’s a little skeptical kind of forces that freak
first out in the slop but maybe he could give eight rings and Dennis’s moment uh
a run for his money if he proves up to the task go into turns the first time
true outside got overcome that but yeah he looks dangerous I’m gonna go with a
trainer angle instead of a specific horse or specific race and that’s mark a
see mark has no less than six horses in winning your in races this weekend most
of them are at Keeneland and I know from talking to him a couple days ago he was
very excited about his opportunities he has with these young superstars that are
working their way up the ladder so I’m gonna be you know with a keen eye
watching mark and to see how how his horses compete over the over the weekend
and and what a phenomenal weekend for racing four weeks ahead of the Breeders
Cup I mean this all the ills that we were talking about what we want to fix
this is the right thing in racing is having all these wonderful races and
ironically enough just as we were talking over the past thirty Seconds the
overnight came out for Belmont so I’m also from a homer standpoint I’m also
gonna be watching a threat of blue which is our oars in the hill prints the great
two on Saturday you also have another miracle is that this weekend or
following weekend good question another miracle is actually on Sunday okay and
that’s a winning you’re in as well so you know hopefully the rain will hold
off because we have two important surf races coming up you know one going nine
furlongs and the other going six Rawlings good luck thank you
appreciate now of us here at the DIA you guys are awesome thank you back to
Steve’s point about the two year old race and I think the New York race kind
of both of those together I think that we have to really really good two year
olds who are now going to the Breeders Cup in Dennis’s moment and eight rings
and we have some pretty good Colts who could join them and kind of make it an
even better than it looks like a two horse race now a little bit but I mean
governor Morris the mark a sea horse to have it to win both in the Keeneland race
green light go might still be the best East Coast three-year-old or
two-year-old three technique I know Jeremiah Englehart was really high on
and he was flattered when one of the horses out of his maiden breaker came
back and won nicely on Sunday at Churchill so I mean that could shape up
to be a really really good race yes another one in there the Brendon Walsh
horse forgetting the name at the moment it’s Maxfield yeah broke slowly past
everybody going a mile first time out at Churchill I thought he was an
interesting horse especially stretching out to two turns here so is he like is
he like the snoop dog of yer analogy I got to come I got I got to work on this
and come up with as many wrapper analogies as I can
we’re trying to we’re trying to reach the younger audience as well here at the
TD yet I had one horse I wanted to also mention on Saturday last race at
Keeneland a first-timer name further Lane who I sold a Tobias April for
170,000 my comment is OBS April monster we love this horse she was out of our
price range but I think she’s Brad Cox as her I’m sure she’s not gonna be a
huge price or anything but I’m looking forward to see her debuting yeah just
for those who don’t know Bryan has dived headfirst is gone head first into
two-year-old racing and two-year-old breeze sails and he really he works hard
at this and takes notes on pretty much every Breezer and I remember last year
the year before when you were taking notes on every two-year-old race every
horse in every two-year-old race for like three months and then Saratoga came
around every night that’s pretty remarkable so so yeah definitely when
when Bryan has an idea at about a two-year-old you should listen to them yeah and just to follow up on what John
was saying about this week and I agree like I don’t want to I don’t want to be
too negative so I think it is it is worth noting that
this is this is this is what it’s about and this and like the next coming month
up until the Breeders Cup and the anticipation I think there are a lot of
good things and racing still and it’s just there’s a lot to fix you know and
that’s everybody’s got a stake in it everybody’s everybody should have an
idea and everybody should should you know be pushing towards the same goal
which is making racing more palatable to everybody and a fairer game as well no
question even over the past you know 10 years I think that overall the industry
has done a really good job of being very introspective and saying okay we can’t
just keep our head in the ground and expect that people are going to come out
and bet their money and also buy our horses so there have been some
regulatory you know changes that have been for the better it seems like that
now there’s going to be more and more transparency whether it’s through you
know the racing game side of it or through drugs or through the you know
hopefully through the the sales side but the first you know the first recognition
the first you know solution of fixing a problem is recognizing there’s a problem
and even though there may be 20 different things that we can come up
with as long as there’s solutions that that are you know accompanying those
then I think that industry’s gonna be better in the long run yeah and I think
this is kind of an inflection point because of the negative attention that
come from Santa Anita I think this is the chance and I think it could be a
blessing in disguise long run because safety drugs like these are all things
that I think have been overdue to be addressed in racing and I think it’s
unfortunately maybe taken a tragic event or tragic happenings to get people to be
more realistic about this but I think in the end it could be a good thing if we
turn this the right way any other thoughts that one good thing I will say
furs negative as things look just even you guys were talking about Keeneland
September before just the gross is the last two years
top five kind of 360 million I forgot the number of 377 was the year before
but people are still spending money people are excited to spend their money
and bidding against each other and from a batting standpoint it seems like
there’s a little a good audience that likes to play as well but that you just
have to focus on some things to fix obviously but just seeing the the gross
a Keeneland is obviously kind of makes everybody calm down it’s made me calm
down at Lee saying that maybe it’s not as gloomy as
you think it is but there are things that need to be fixed and need to be
fixed in re yeah and and just want a hammer Brian’s point about takeout –
it’s it’s to me that’s easily one of the top two or three most important issues
in terms of retaining fans and gaining new fans is the younger betters are more
and more sophisticated and they have more and more options you know then they
used to especially now with sports betting becoming legal and tracks out
there people notice when you cut takeout and people notice when you hike takeout
and we’ve seen like the the horseplayer boycotts from Churchill when they raised
the takeout it happened to Keeneland about a year or two ago so people are
very sensitive to this kind of thing and meat to me too when I started playing
races I didn’t really pay attention to take out at all which is BETT Belmont if
it was in front of me but now I’m like exclusively a almost exclusively a pick
5 player because I think that’s the best value at 15% as opposed to these 24
percent pick for takeout so people people notice and if you want to retain
these fans and you don’t want to give in to the miserable conspiracy later thank
you give them something to be happy about you know people people will will
reward you for it but you I thought take out only matters if you win you can’t
win at the current take out right yeah probably
there are very few people in America I think that win it’s difficult for sure
that’s a good thing we have the Financial X right here to tell us that
yeah Moe is here for you alright so that’s it for this week a much shorter
podcast without the dulcet tones of Bill Finley but hopefully we’ll have him back
next week I want to thank Steve Shrek John Green and Brian DiDonato see you
next week you

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