Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | N+A=J | Part 4 | The White Wolf

Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | N+A=J | Part 4 | The White Wolf

hello and welcome back to the Woolston we are the order of the green hand in this series of videos we are putting forth the notion that Jon Snow is in fact the true king of the north and Ned Stark’s firstborn son in part one we set forth the suggested time line surrounding Jon Snow’s birth including what we know the characters in our story were up to between the key events we used as points of reference the bottom line is this enough time passes between Harrenhal in the start of Robert’s rebellion for Ned and de Shara’s budding romance to blossom into a serious relationship likely resulting in him asking her to accompany him to his brother’s wedding this places some of their last encounters in the weeks and or months leading up to the rebellion lining up perfectly with the time frame in which we believe Jon Snow is conceived coming up we’re going to discuss how John is practically an EDD clone so let’s get this started at the beginning of book one in either their first or second point of view chapter both Arya and Tyrion mentioned that John looks like Nick in a game of Thrones Arya – Arya was thinking about how she and John had always been close and then she thinks quote John had their father’s face as she did they were the only ones Robb and Sansa and bran and even little Rick on all took after the Tully’s with easy smiles and fire in their hair while travelling north with John on their way to the wall Tyrion had just finished telling him that life at the wall is not like it is in the stories in fact it’s going to be pretty terrible he then made this observation about John the boy absorbed that all in silence he had the stark face if not the name long solemn guarded a face that gave away nothing whoever his mother had been she had left little of herself in her son this clearly indicates that when Tyrion looks at John he sees virtually nothing but Ned in central Catalan chapter XI also references how much her children take after her side of the family and how much John like knit in a game of Thrones Catalan to Catalans thinking about how whoever John’s mother had been Ned must have loved her fiercely and how nothing she could do would persuade him to send him away she then thinks to herself quote she might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned’s sake so long as they were out of sight but John was never out of sight and as he grew he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him in a clash of kings Catalan six Catalan thinks to herself quote her own children had more Tully about them than Stark Arya was the only one to show much of Ned and her features and John Snow but he was never mine kourin half hand Stannis and Cersei are all able to identify John as Ned Stark’s son without an introduction upon meeting John for the first time corne half and said you are Jon Snow you have your father’s look John then replied did you know him my lord – which Corrin replied I am no Lord only a brother of the Nights Watch I knew Lord Eddard yes and his father before him in a feast for crows Cersei for after finding out that John’s been appointed the new Lord Commander of the watch she replies I glimpsed him once at Winterfell the Queen said though the Starks did their best to hide him he looks very like his father following Stannis is victory over the wildlings Stannis summons John to his chambers at Castle black and their exchange began like this I know Janus Slynt and I knew Ned Stark as well your father was no friend of mine but only a fool would doubt his honor or his honesty you have his look even Ned thinks that John looks like him after leaving shakyas brothel where Ned meets a whore who recently gave birth to Robert’s newest baby bastard he thinks to himself how much John looks like he did when he was younger riding through the rainy night Ned saw John snows face in front of him so like a younger version of his own if the gods frowned so on bastards he thought dully why do they fill men with such lusts okay so Ned and John really look alike but not only do they look like they have virtually identical personalities morals senses of duty honor and justice throughout the book both Ned and John are described as serious men with solemn demeanors in bran won the very first chapter of the book bran describes John as being in quote old hand at justice in a game of Thrones Arya – Ned tells Arya that he knew that her dire wolf would never run away despite what she had said arya tells him how she had to throw rocks at her in order to get her to run away she then asked her father if she had done the right thing he replies that it was right and even the lie was not without honor similarly in the fifth Sam chapter and a Storm of Swords Sam asked John if there can be honor and Ally John responds by saying that there can be honour and Ally depending on the lie and if it’s told for the right purpose in the knight of the Laughing tree story told by Meera in a Storm of Swords she doesn’t use the characters actual names but rather a code name that is descriptive of them in some way for example Brandon is the wild wolf Liana the she-wolf and benjin the wolf pup Ned is the quiet wolf it just so happens that our story has a quiet wolf in the form of ghost John’s dire wolf who never makes a sound speaking of dire wolves when asked about the dire wolves and more specifically about ghosts george RR martin made the following statement even in Winterfell as a kid before the wolves John was the bastard he was the odd one out the rest of them are all brothers and sisters he’s only a half brother so he’s not as closely tied to them so he’s of he’s part of the family he’s part of the siblings but he’s a little bit apart too ghost is very similar to that he’s the albino he’s the one who makes no noise so he’s related to the other direwolves but one apart as well I think it is important that you take note of the fact that george RR martin made a concerted effort to point out that ghosts like john is a sibling of the others but a little bit different and even more importantly that he decided to use the word sibling according to merriam-webster the word sibling is defined as one of two or more individuals having at least one common parent this would make sense since John is a half-brother to the other star children having only the same father as them given the care that george RR martin is known for taking and choosing his words it seems to us that this is a subtle confirmation that Ned is in fact John’s father in a feast for crows Johnson’s Sam Maester Aemon Gilly and her baby away from Castle black only as it turns out the baby wasn’t really her son it ended up being mance rayder’s son whose wife died giving birth to their son during Stannis attack on the wildling camp he does this because Melisandre is going around talking about her need for King’s blood to feed her fires she ends up fake sacrificing Mance Rayder to the flames because as it turned out she had glamoured the real man’s to look like the Lord of bones and the Lord of bones to look like mance so in the books mance isn’t actually the guy who gets burned alive it is really the Lord of bones glamour to appear like him however before John is privy to this information he begins to fear for the lives of both maester aemon and Mance’s son before any harm can come to them John sends Gilly away with manses son along with maester aemon and Sam and keeps her in Craster’s son at Castle black so if our theory on Ned slash Shara’s romance resulting in Jon Snow is true it would seem very likely that Ned pulled a very similar baby SWAT maneuver here’s how that would have gone Ned arrives at Starfall with his sister’s baby who likely looked like a Targaryen and discovered that azshara had recently given birth to their son John they talk about the situation at hand he expresses his fear for the baby’s life considering the recent deaths of Elia and Rhaegar children and it is decided that he will take John back to Winterfell and the Shara will take Liana and Rhaegar son in order to keep him safe in other words when faced with a similar situation in which a baby’s life was in jeopardy John and Ned’s solution to their prospective problems was identical so you might be asking yourself why a Shara would decide to make such an enormous sacrifice well given the fact that Arthur Dayne was Rhaegar x’ closest friend Ana Shara was a lady companion to Elia it is likely that the Danes are aware of the prince that was promised prophecy and the rear merchants of the White Walkers it also seems likely that since george RR martin referred to the sword of the morning as an office that the quote-unquote oath of office a sword of the morning swears has something to do with leading the fight to stop the White Walkers I mean think about it the name of the sword a sword of the morning carries is dawn the previous war against the White Walkers culminated in a final battle referred to as the battle for the dawn and according to legend mankind was led to victory by a man who carried a sword known to the world as white brainer it is also likely that the final battle took place in the very location where bran the Builder decided to build Winterfell I mean why else would he decide to call it Winterfell unless it is in fact the very place where winter fell this would suggest there is a potential bond between how stark and house Dayne that stretches back thousands of years or at the very least a deep respect considering that the founding members of each of their houses played a key role in defeating the white walkers and winning the original battle for the dog okay to summarize John looks like Ned he acts like Ned he basically is Ned also John has a direwolf which came from the same litter as all the others to use George RR Martin’s words making ghost a sibling to the others after seeing brands excitement John basically convinced Ned to let his brothers and sisters keep the Wolves because it seems that they were meant to have them not only because the direwolf is the sigil of his house but because he points out that there are the exact right number of wolves of the exact right gender additionally John is a known warg and a powerful one at that he has wolf dreams and dreams where the old kings of winter are calling to him and seemingly pulling him into the deepest levels of the crypts were the old kings of the north rest on the flip side he doesn’t look Targaryen he doesn’t have dragon dreams and he has never expressed the desire to be anyone than who he already is a bastard and a stark lastly I want to leave some of the naysayers still drinking the R + L equals J kool-aid with this in a game of Thrones Ned thinks to himself not once but twice how he hadn’t thought about Rhaegar in years I mean this statement alone could independently eliminate the possibility of Rhaegar being John’s father think about it how could net be raising Rhaegar son for the past 15 years yet never once think of the man coming up in our next video we will be answering the million dollar question who the hell was born at the Tower of joy

100 thoughts on “Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | N+A=J | Part 4 | The White Wolf

  1. Apparently the Daynes are uniquely first-men(non-rhoynish, stony dornish) but have Valyrian appearances skin, eye, hair color. and apparently it is confirmed that the purple eyes are unrelated to the targaryan line. in either N+A=J or R+L, John Snow seriously dodged purple eyes because all his non-stark potential parents had purple eyes(ashara/rheagar) Most of GRRM's family trees are detailed down to dragon riding genetics and with the seed being strong and all. so John Snow's genetic traits, dreams, and destiny should be laid out. I am a huge fan of order of the green hand. and N+A, but my burning question is where did the Daynes get Purple eyes from? And where do the purple eyes go? and why does john get dark grey eyes, and edrick dayne purple eyes? How strong is this Purple eye seed? Rheagar + Elia Martell(Rhoynish Dornish)= Purple eyed Aegon? but Rheneys's eye color is not confirmed… The solution may be that the Dayne's purple eye trait also operates differently and the Targaryan one is more dominant. That is to say if Rheagar really was John's father, John wouldn't have dodged the strong Targ. purple eye trait. but Ashara was his mother and Daynish Purple eye traits were dodged.

  2. in this series you said jon doesn't have dragon dreams like some past Targaryens
    while making his journey to the wall with tyrion, tyrion tells jon he's had "dragon" dreams and of burning his father and sister. jon deny it but thinks that he has in fact had the same dreams

  3. Renly looks just like Edric Storm. Arya resembles Jon and also Lyanna. precedent is established that a child can strongly take after an aunt or uncle in both looks and personality. not saying you're wrong just playing devils advocate. in these books one mans proof is another's red herring.

  4. It is fact, that ,mostly man child take features os their uncles aka brother of their mother….

  5. I think it's also interesting to note that a bastard can take their family heraldry in reverse colours, for instance the blackfyres had a black dragon on a red field. would this then mean that Jons heraldry should be a white direwolf on a grey field? it adds further evidence to why GRRM gave Jon a White wolf. I've always been a fan of the Tyrion Targaryan theory and it makes much more sense if Jon is a stark because that leaves aegon tyrion and dany as the three heads of the dragon. some fodder to think on. Also great vids guys!

  6. As I understand D&D always presented GRRM asking them who Jon mother was as the final test in order to be granted rights to adapt the books. They and everyone took whatever answer they gave as them passing the test. I think they gave the wrong answer and failed the test. GRRM let them make the show knowing nothing they did would spoil the books.

  7. I have a better theory. Jon is fatherless. He was born like Jesus, just a miracle to a woman. Therefore he is gods/magic incarnate. Why? Because no one expects it, and Jon is destined to be this world's Vader and will bring death to the world for decades when he allies with the Others, an ancient native race to this planet. Years later he'll meet with Arya and she'll make him see the light in which he uses his blood or powers to end the Others and Arya will be given with his final breath his Lightbringer sword, aka red Lightsaber. Thus ends a chapter on this world of the Ancient Sith Empire. Let's move on.

  8. Umm…. didn't Robert's Rebellion start in 282 AC? I'm pretty sure that's what it says both in the wiki and in George R. R. Martin's established timeline. It started late 282 AC and ended in 283 AC. So it would sort of throw your entire timeline off a bit. I guess you can change it that the duel between Brandon and Littlefinger happened in early 282 AC but with your calculation of Littlefinger's age…

    But other than that, I like the theory and it can work.

  9. "nothing is more deceptive than an obvious fact" we overlooked everything thats says Jon is Ned's son, and wanted to believe R+L= J

  10. I think Jon is dead and mance is still the sword of the morning. Jon did his duty and beyond. His death will be a catalyst for getting the realm involved with the dire threat of the Wildlings and traveling rumors of the others. Just like ned.

  11. Order of the Green Hand great vid as usual. Don't worry about the R + L =J fan boys their minds can't understand anything that the D&D don't put in the show.

  12. (SPOILERS AHEAD if you're not 100% up to date with both the books and TV series.)

    I've never been a fan of the R+L=J theory, for reasons of my own that are too long to get into here. And your N+A=J theory is as interesting as any other alternative, though I don't find your evidence all that cast-iron (e.g. rumours repeated by 8-year-old Ned Dayne and by Cersei).

    But here's the problem _ the TV series, in the last Season 6 scenes about the Tower of Joy and about Jon Snow, has committed itself to R+L=J.

    So either you're saying that GRRM is going to totally ignore the TV series, or you're saying that the whole world was wrong about what they watched in S6 Ep10.

    Yes, I know the TV series diverts from the books all over the place. However, I think the question of Jon's origins is not something D&D would play fast and loose with, given that GRRM made their guesses on this subject the make-or-break condition of allowing them to put his books on screen.

  13. R+L= J, ruins Jon's character as it makes him into the rightful king of Westeros and possibly the Prince that was promise. This contradicts the character of Jon as a bastard trying to find his way in the world.

  14. well the baby swap thing didn't really convince me. didn't she kill herself? just after Ned killed her brother and found Lyana with her baby?
    anyways the N+A=J is more appealing to me . I think the show, however is going with the R+L=J . the scene where they close up on the baby face then show jon's face wasn't very subtle.

  15. could u imagine that the nights watch made Jon dye ghost black because the men of the nights watch dress in black

  16. I've spent all day watching your R+L=A, N+A=J & Who Was Born at the Tower of Joy videos and I must say you've swayed me back to believing that R+L=J isn't accurate for the books, these videos have been great. However I still don't believe in your speculation about House Dayne, the Sword of the Morning and Dawn being directly linked to the Long Night, you just sort of jumped to that conclusion & in order for me to buy it you need to make a very detailed video explaining exactly why you believe this, and what serious evidence you have to back it up. I do think it's possible Dawn was the original Lightbringer during the Long Night as House Dayne is very ancient, however I'm not convinced that the Sword of the Morning title is bestowed upon a champion meant to defeat the Others, long way to go before you sway me on this one.
    And don't forget Lightbringer wasn't the only name given to this mythical weapon, the Red Sword of Heroes is another, and if the blade was actually red then that rules Dawn out, but maybe there were many legendary swords wielded by many heroes during the long Night, just food for thought.

  17. Another worthy video; however, the at 4:50, indicated when Ned is in his own head he is thinking of Jon as a bastard. Also, Good luck convincing a new mother to give up her child, no matter the circumstances. No one knows that the White Walkers are back at that early point in the timeline.

  18. GRRM seems to have a habit of talking off the cuff when give details to fans, so I don't put much stalk in to the reference of 'siblings' when discussing Jon and his up-bringing. It seems like he was discussing more that he was raised as a sibling, not that he was specifically drawing attention to him being an actual sibling. If R + L = J was true, GRRM would still talk with fans and call Jon a Stark sibling, even if in fact he wasn't.

    All that being said, the more I watch the more I am convinced about N + A = J…

  19. I just tore up all 4 parts of N+A=J
    high 5
    very interesting ,I like it,thank you
    It reminds me of a 3 part series about Ned and Ashire but a different parentage
    Thank you again

  20. I think this theory is a little convoluted. The simple answer is probably the truth.
    I believe R+L=J but I love your videos. I think your attention to detail is awesome. I just disagree. Thanks for the videos.

  21. Arya is several times compared to Lyanna in looks and personality. Yet I doubt you would dispute that she is Ned's daughter.

  22. aren't there a lot of comparisons between arya and lyanna? if she looks like her dad but also his sister and Jon, Jon can just as easily be linked to lyanna this way through appearances. What explanation is offered for lyannas death as Well. some interesting ideas but you seem to use a lot of your own circumstantial theories as the basis for forming other theories as if they constitute evidence in themselves. good listen though enjoying it

  23. I love this theory so much! I've only watched the show so far and have just barely begun to read the books. I was subscribed to the R+L=J theory mainly because that's what the show is trying to set up. But this is an excellent argument and makes so much more sense! The rich lore is what attracted me to this series to begin with and I'm excited to delve deeper into it with books. I really appreciate your painstaking dissection of the mythology! Your hard work really shows. Great channel.

  24. while I have long been an R+L=J supporter I am not ruling out that your theory could very well be true as well. I firmly believe the child Ashara had was Nedd's child even if that child wasn't Jon. The only thing I take issue with is Jon's mother is so important and the books and the show are ment to have the same end game (Confirmed by GRRM) but are taking different paths to get there… why would they (HBO and D&D) confirm R+L=J only for GRRM to have written it as Ashara being Jon's mother. both implications of who Jon's mother/parents are is game changing and goes along with the Azor Ahai prophecy in some way but your theory hinges a lot on the timeline which inspire of your evidence will be strongly debated by many in the Fandom. all this does not mean that I do not enjoy your take on the story. it is certainly a well thought out and well researched one and I enjoy the way you present the information. I am going to continue to listen to your take because the beauty of the ASOIAF community is all the wonderful and varied theories.

  25. your "sibling" observation adds nothing to your claim. Okay George said that Jon is having a common parent with Stark children! so what? Jon being Ned's bastard is what is literally written in the books. It is layer one. Calling him a sibling of Stark children is not revealing a secret!

  26. I can't believe I only found this channel now. I have been trying to prove N+A=J but I don't have the eye for detail certain people (like you) have, and now I find out someone has already done it for me, in a marvelous and brilliant way at that. Thank you so much for this. One question though, how do you think Jon will discover his true parentage? That's one of the problems I find with this theory, it's that I can't see a way that Jon will get to know the truth. But in the R+L=J theory, the truth could lie in the crypts. Please answer this, so that if I die tomorrow, I shall die in peace! Lol

  27. Yet another perk of being a Tywin Lannister stan 😛 Discovering this channel (Through the Tywin-Machiavelli videos), how have I not done it before is beyond me! I just love your attention to all the details it's truly astounding! Seriously this is my new addiction!! I much prefer N+A=J to R+L=J because that one is too Disney-esque & not GRRM's style at all IMO.
    I haven't watched the show beyond S4 because I'm waiting for TWoW but I did see the Lyanna clip in 6×10 & I wanna ask has there been any actual/worded confirmation that Jon is that baby? I mean the whole cutting from the baby's face to Jon's could be a misleading trick…

  28. Fck it… and you! 🙂
    I've watched your case for over 3 hours now, and you spoiled the greatest deception of literature in the known history. A massive spoiler warning would be nice 🙂
    But never mind. I think many of the major plotlines are known by Dan&Dave, but i feel the show is not going to do it. The whole Dayne stuff is hidden from the show, and no one could've guessed it, like you did on the grounds of the canon. I can imagine two cases why they are not doing the book stuff though: first of all GRRM feeled the show will precede his work, and to stay authentic – forced by his proudness in his work -, he agreed to the R+L=J theory before the producers. My second theory is that D&D know the Dayne stuff already but they either find it to twisted for a TV-show(like Rickon plotline), or just simply liked the popular theory of Jons parentage better. (We know how arrogant those are)

  29. Jon being like Ned has to do with his upbringing more so than his genes, him looking like Ned makes sense, he is a Stark, are your theory based on whether or not Ned looks like his own father, or his grand father?? Lyanna carries almost the same genes as Eddard Stark, why would she not be able to give birth to a boy that looks like their father?

    Mostly the reason why I fight tooth and nail not to believe your version is because of Jon Snow as a character, him being "Azor Ahai" would just be too obvious, it doesn't feel right, it would feel absolutely out of place imo, it is going back to the whole "This story is just black and white then" Personally I hope, I dearly hope that Azor Ahai, might possibly be Sandor Clegane.

    Also the whole bottomline of your statements in the video, is completely and utterly incorrect, Jon would still be a Stark if he is of Lyanna Stark, he is Jon Snow after all, a northerner, not a Targaryen, and so what if he doesn't look Targaryen? Robb doesn't look Stark, only in the show he does. Does that mean Robb wasn't Ned's son in the books? Play the devil's advocate, it is fun also, I think it would be more interesting.

    That is personal opinion, I think it is great you guys showcase this theory in this detail, I like it, I watched it after all, I am just not buying it and I hope you are wrong.

  30. Well I'm going to keep sipping that koolaid, though I always enjoy theory videos from people who are obviously invested in the story and the world 🙂
    But to give my two cents, if N+A=J then GRRM either accidentally wrote a mystery, or wrote the worst mystery ever. Ashara is the first person who the reader is told is Jon's mother. For the reveal to be that it is Ashara is sort of just – okay, so Cat was right. There isn't much shock, because the idea has already been seeded in our heads. Yes, R+L=J has become super popular, and it's taken over the internet due to the series' popularity and the amount of time people have had to mull it over, so you can claim "but you wouldn't see it coming because you mistakenly fell for those hints." But that would be the most ridiculous choice an author ever made. Planting just a few hints to suggest a red herring, while out right stating the truth? That's not a mystery… that's either an accident, or a pretty obvious recipe to disappointing people who were expecting something exciting.
    Also: Is the fact that Arya Stark bears such a close resemblance to her Aunt Lyanna, is nicknamed Arya Horseface (when her Aunt had such a close affinity for horses), and a tomboy just like her aunt, a sign that Arya is actually the secret daughter of Lyanna :O????

  31. Ok, I can believe this is it happens in the books, but R+L=J is the only reasonable answer to who Jon's parents are. There just would be no time for the show to explain all of this seeing as we are very close to the end of the series.

  32. If this is true, with the number of episodes left in the series I dont see them having enough time to explain Ashara and her relevance to the audience. Of course the books are something else all together…

  33. Well, wouldn't G.R.R.M making so many references of their resemblance, to make readers believe that he is indeed his bastard son. Before revealing his true parents to great surprise?
    And after all, Jon would have the same 2 grandparents (of 4 ofc) if her mother was Lyanna as if his father is Ned.

    But instead there's both a secret Targaryen AND a secret Stark and who else, due to Ned riding around all of Westeros swapping babies 😅

    Robb the Young Wolf
    Jaime the Kingslayer
    Jon the White Wolf
    Eddard the Baby Swapper

  34. I agree with your assessment of Jon being Ned and Ashara's son, but why do you think he had to keep it a secret all these years? What's the harm in telling him the truth? That's the only part I'm confused about.

  35. GRRM is a master story teller and puts things in front of you that you ether skip thinking you've understood it, or you read another way from maybe your favourite character's perspective , we are lead to believe that Rickon's naming of his Direwolf shaggy dog is meant to be a 3 year olds idea of a cool name , it's really rickon's and his direwolfs whole story line , it's just another shaggy dog tale that go's no where , I'm watching your videos in order and I'm liking it , for me the whole tower of joy story does not make sense , were to believe Rheagar is hiding his bit on the side under his wife's family's nose? The " war " timeline has always confused me , even Dany's birth , she seems to be conceived on the very night kings landing fell because she's born 9 months later , I highly doubt Aerys was up for some slap and tickle at that time

  36. Excellent video ! your run down at the end brought to mind the Starks other motto " there must always be a stark in Winterfell " why??
    Sansa and Arya will marry out of family , ( show wise Sansa is already Lady Lannister, or lady Bolton ) bran doesn't want to be Lord of Winterfell and not to be indelicate but if he did marry could he have children? My point being if Jon is not a Stark the Stark line will end with bran ,
    No more Starks in winterfell and what will that mean ?

  37. I think your theory is very likely. I also find an interesting pattern that many have overlooked. The Targaryen dynasty began with Aegon, Visenya, Rhaenys and three dragons. Now we have Danaerys, Cersi(with Jaime may be the mad Kings bastards), Aegon "The Young Griff" and three dragons. There are patterns that read like schematics all over these novels.

  38. – Jon looks like his sister who looks like Lyanna.
    – Jon acts like a Stark… so did Lyanna
    – Jon being the son of the family of fire and the family of ice makes him equally imporant character and likely the Prince that was promised.
    – Direwolf is house stark, so is lyanna. The wolves being all siblings is a stretch, they were all pureblood siblings and jon wouldn't be pureblood no matter which theory is correct. He was raised with them and he is half Stark (no matter the theory).
    – Jon is a Warg… cause he's a Stark regardless of which theory.
    – John has Wolf dreams… cause he's a Stark.
    – John has dreams of the stark crypts…Cause he's a Stark. These things don't have to come from Eddard alone, he and his sister were both Stark.
    – Jon doesn't have Dragon Dreams, sure but Dany doesnt warg into Drogon either. This is irrellevant. Lyanna is a stark.
    – Jon might have some features of Rhaegar. but obvi the stark gene is strong. ("the seed is strong").
    – His identity is… gdi. That's how he grew up! Identities are created in utero! Genes don't determine that. Harry Potter wasn't born with "The Boy Who Lived" identity! gdi, these points anger me. They reach.
    – Jon has only known his life, him wanting to be a pureblood Stark has nothing to do with whether Lyanna or Ned is his Stark parent.
    – If Jon is not a stark, the line of Starks could continue w/ the females if it was needed like the Mormonts and would likely be accepted and john could also pass on the stark name and genes. Also Jon IS an effing stark! his mother was a Stark! If someone married Lyanna Mormant, she would retain her house title and her consort would either take her name or not but she would remain. Same happens in Dorne.

  39. It's all in the words, GRRM uses every word for a reason, great set of videos. I'm now a firm believer in N+A=J

  40. You've made a huge research that impressed me and made me think. In fact, I'm beggining to believe you are right, and i've always supported R+L=J! I think you connected the dots very well. Just one thing annoys me: why Eddard never call Jon my son, but my blood instead? And why while waiting for his death at the dungeon thinks about his children and specifically mentions Robb, Sansa, Bran, Arya and Rickon, but no Jon?

    And the thing about Winterfell being the place of the final battle against the Night King, gave me chills! In a good way, obviously.

    And the Daynes are descendants of the First Men so it makes sense that Dawn is actually Lightbringer, meant for Jon to beat the Darkness… That'd be awesome…

  41. Great live stream with Rawrist. I thought N+A=J was true early on, but fell into R+L=J just like everyone else. GRRM wouldn't make things that easy for his readers.

  42. You guys convinced me. I was on the R+L=J like it was gospel ever since the game theory video. But this fits GRRM way better. Once the Tower of Joy scene was written out, R+L=J was just too obvious. That and GRRM doesn't play by traditional genetics rules. GOT characters tend to resemble their fathers over their mothers (the SEED is strong). Even when the targareons outbred, they tended to have targareon white hair at least 1/2 the time, even with dark haired partners (see Bloodraven, Sheira Seastar, Aerys I, Dareon I, Jaehaerys II, Aegon II, etc)

  43. You guys are pimps. Truly. I am constantly reading the books and it is certainly true that time and time again people remark on Jon's resemblance to Ned Stark. I mean, grrm kind of makes it a point to make sure the reader knows that Jon has Neds face. Over and over. But like some others, I'm not 100% convinced that he couldn't have got the Stark face from Lyanna's Stark genes. The more I listen to you guys, the more I believe. I've read the story so many times, yet you guys definitely have a deeper well of knowledge than I do about many things. It's so frustrating because grrm deliberately attempts to make multiple possibilities seem perfectly plausible. Even making one possibility seem a little stronger, deliberately pointing the reader that way, while the truth may be what appears less likely. I just want the books dammit. Why did they have to do this epic show before the books were finished?

  44. Huge supporter of the theory, though I have but one question: why would Ned hide the identity of Jon's mother if this proves to be true?

  45. Is it possible griff is need and ashara's child? And Jon actually is rhaegar and lyanna's? I feel Jon's looks are to deceive readers from making that rhaegar connection right away..idk

  46. I don't get why people care so much about his parentage. At the end of the day it makes no difference who his parents are. He is still a bastard if he is Asharas. and if he is Rhaegars he is also still a bastard. I don't believe George would write an annulment in for rhaegar. it makes no sense at all. he's had a long standing marriage fully consimated with children. The faith almost never annulls marriages. even marriages that weren't consimated have been denied for kings.

  47. Jon could simply resemble his uncle, as far as the TV show goes. I have a sibling, who with another cousin, looks so much like my mother's baby sister, they could have both been the baby sister's kids. Also, speaking as a female, those two actors to my eye look NOTHING ALIKE, I know you only use the TV actors images so your audience knows who your referring to but one has a 'Robert Redford' I'm gonna be FINE for a LONG TIME look (Kit) while the other is more HARRISON FORD or Sean Penn good looking (Sean) (gonna age visably) and it's hard to get past that (for me). I agree with "How could Ned not have thought about Rhaeyn in all this time" but perhaps it's because he knew his sister wasn't actually raped???? (excuse my spelling)

  48. My main problem with N+A=J is the secrecy behind Jon's parentage. If Jon is Ashara's son via Ned why keep it a secret? She's supposedly dead and as long as Ned and Ashara didn't get married it doesn't really matter. Basically there's no reason to keep Jon's parentage a secret if Jon is Ned and Ashara's bastard son. That isn't even including the fact that it's a huge stretch for Robert to have never found out who Ned was courting to at least give Ashara as potential mother for Jon. You meant to tell me that Robert wouldn't have figured out his best friend was seeing a girl in secret for 13-15 months and tried to figure out who it was? He wouldn't have enquired at all or even had someone follow him to figure it out? I know it'd be eating at me figuring out what my best friend would be doing during that time away. Hell you lead me to believe that Ned wouldn't have gone to Robert for any advice about woman at all during that time?

    That isn't to say that I don't believe that Ashara and Ned weren't in love however. Because I do believe that. It makes for a tragic love story for Ned during Robert's Rebellion, marrying Catelyn for duty and losing the woman he loves in the process and it does seem to be truly what happened.

    R+L=J on the other hand fulfills the requirement of needing to keep Jon's parentage a secret. After all you'd need to keep Jon's parentage a secret while Robert "killing Targaryen babies in their cribs is completely justified" Baratheon is king and there is so much foreshadowing in the books that Jon is Targaryen through Lyanna and Rheagar. Whether through Dany's vision during the house of the undying with her at the wall and it having a winter flower filling the air with sweetness. Who at the wall could be Lyanna's son symbolizing the winter flower? Jon of course. Or how she hears a wolf howling and gets sad during ADWD the literal chapter after Jon gets stabbed.

    However I can see N+A=J being true if Ned did marry Ashara because then they would need to keep Jon's parentage a secret in order to keep the Tully alliance and make a Tully child his firstborn and heir to Winterfell. Maybe Ned was the one that got an annulment so he could marry Catelyn before finding out Ashara was pregnant? That coupled with Jon potentially being the wielder of the sword of the morning makes a compelling case for needing to keep Jon's parentage a secret. It also does make the kids nickname being "Ned" make sense. It would also mean, as you pointed out, that Jon could actually meet Ashara if Septa Lemore is actually Ashara. Although I do lean towards Septa Lemore being Illyrio's wife Serra who is from Blackfyre or Brightflame decent over Ashara.

  49. I just wanted to award 12,000 internet points for the caption at 2:16, well done. I rarely chuckle out loud while watching youtube.

  50. I'm not sure Jon's looks and personality can be used as evidence. Ned remarks that Arya looks and acts like Lyanna, but she's his daughter. If Ned can produce a child that looks and acts like Lyanna, can't Lyanna produce a child that looks and acts like Ned?

  51. After watching all the series so far, there is a complete confusion to me with all that you have posted here. As I assumed that it was Ned Stark that was only with Catlyn. Lyanna was the true wife of Raegar and bore Jon Snow, who is Aegon Tygarian. and the neice of Daneyarias?

  52. I've been subscribed for months but have never watched these older videos and yes thank you. I wish this to be true as I dont really like that R+L=J bullshit

  53. First go around I thought this was stupid. Now that I have read the series 5+ times, It all makes sense. I will never doubt you again lol

  54. Winterfell was the only keep built on unleveled ground and the word fell in German means hill just a thought there. I think that Storms End would be more plausible for the last line of defense. I catch hell for this a lot but I am absolutely in accordance with your theory of N+A=J so don’t think I’m trying to throw shade at you. Just don’t quite agree that Winterfell was named as in where winter fell unless your saying fell as in began. Love all your videos holding to hope that the books don’t give us R+L=J it would be lackluster to say the least. The show is very much it’s own thing now and I would hate for the stories to end differently but the details of how we get there could be drastically different. By the way you guys do great narrations love the breakdowns.

  55. I would mitt I was one of those snow is related to Ragnar but now I think that theory is false I re-examined some of what I have of the books and the TV show. And I think you guys are right you’ve hit the nail on the head. Because if snow was related to Ragnar he would be having dragon dreams and Ned would see the resemblance of Ragnar in jon.

  56. Is there a chance brandon dishonored ashara by raping her..and ned knew this showed her kindness n they fell in love..barristan said a stark dishonored ashara..but I dont think it was ned by the Way barristan treated him in kingslanding..

  57. I have a theory. Maybe you guys can point me in the right direction. Is it possible that winter (regular winter) is a phenomenon tied to a stark being inside the walls of wonderful. With Ned and Jon dead And Neds tully children dead or alive outside of winterfell could that be the cause of the upcoming long night? What is the more surrounding winter starts and stops in relation to having a proper lord sitting within winterfell.

  58. Wouldn't it be something if the sword Dawn was the actual sword from prophecy? That would be convenient; no need for any blood sacrifices to forge it if you already have it.

  59. I like your videos, but i dont think n+a=j, it makes no sense why his dreams always show him in the crypts and his not a stark. if he was neds then he would be a stark down in the crypts.

  60. I just heard about you guys from a fellow YouTuber and I have to say, I'm quite impressed with this theory. Y'all have done a lot of research. Do you think maybe this is why GRRM hasn't released anymore books? Because his story completely deviates from the show so he wanted to wait until it wraps? I always thought it was very strange that he would allow D&D to make the huge reveals in HIS story so this makes a ton of sense to me. I'm going to be doing a lot of bingeing on your videos 😊

  61. This where I hate writers when it come to true parents in books. By all rights Jon should have last name Stark and not snow knowing the kind of person Ned is he had would of marriage Ashara first. Then marriage that bitch after Ashara die in children birth. Jon is true a born Stark end of story they can do what they want in the Tv version that is just find.

  62. I've kind of suspected that Arya and Jon had a different mother than Catelyn Tully. If Jon and Arya were Ashara's children, it would make a lot of sense.

  63. Wow I just watched some of your videos and I have to say that you guys did some serious brainstorming. I honestly love the N+A=J theory you guys came up with and all the things you guys point out make sense to the point where I would be satisfied if the books actually went this way. It's a freaking good theory and could be true for all I know, however somethings you pointed out don't justify it at all. In the ASOIAF universe members of the same family often look very similar but there are exceptions. Jon looking just like Ned does not mean he is not Rhaegar's son. Orys Baratheon was said to be brother to Aegon I and looked nothing like a Targaryen to the point that he founded House Baratheon and no one considers them Targaryen. Also Rhaegar already had an offspring who did not look like him, his daughter Rhaenys. And while we are on this topic Ned has four children who do not look anything at all like him, does this mean there are not his? Only Arya and Jon are his children? This can't be used to justify one theory or the other. Jon acts just like Ned, well so did Robb. Why? Because they were raised by him. It's what he taught them. When Jon is talking to Bran during the beheading in BRAN I of GOT he is telling Bran how to act based on what Ned would like his behaviour to be. That is how much Jon knew Ned and wanted make him proud so naturally he would grow up to be mostly like him. He has a direwolf because he IS A STARK. He is Lyanna's son making him as much a Stark as the other Stark children but, like you pointed out, his wolf is different and silent because unbeknownst to all (secret-silence) he will not be considered a Stark, as per tradition he will be considered a Targaryen but he IS both and has a right the direwolf the same way he has a right to a dragon (song of ice and fire right?). And finally, in order to keep Jon safe Ned had to lie to everyone. It was imperial that no one knew who Jon really was because if this secret got out Jon would be killed, Ned would be killed, Catelyn and the other children would probably be killed and if they lived their lives would be miserable (being related to someone who committed treason). So yeah I believe he never thought of Rhaegar again because from that moment on Jon was his bastard son and God be damned if he would let anyone else think otherwise, even himself. He loved Jon like a true son of Winterfell because that was what he really was and he did everything he could for Jon to have the best life in his only home because the Targaryens were no more.

  64. Ned hadn't thought about rhaegar in years. Ned also didn't think about ashara dayne even once in AGOT, and had nothing to say when Cersei accused him of fathering a son on her. When ned is in the black cells he thinks about (specifically) his children and recognizes Robb, sansa, bran, arya, and rickon. Well, isn't jon his kid also? If jon snow's mother was Ashara Dayne, why would ned stark need to keep that a secret? If she is dead, it wouldn't really be a stain on her honor because no one is really trying for her hand in marriage. If ashara is still alive, why keep it a secret? It's not like anyone had seen her in 15 years. I dont doubt that ashara and ned had a fling, that's all but confirmed. But I dont think that the secrecy was necessary unless jon snow was a contender for the throne and had to be hid or else Robert baratheon would kill him. I maintain R+L=J

  65. Just got done breezing through all of your N+A=J videos.
    Even though I had conflicting feelings earlier on when I read the books about whether Jon's mother was Lyanna or Ashara, after watching these videos, you guys have helped me become a more concrete believer in Ashara being Jon's mother in the books.
    Plus the evidence you present makes the R+L=J look less than likely each video, and N+A=J even more likely and sensible. Not to mention the pairing gives readers a more interesting story.
    Keep up the great work.

  66. Jon even wears his sword over his shoulder, though not the same type, it’s a parallel to Ser Arthur. Like uncle like nephew

  67. no, no, no! what Tyrion sees is the Stark look, not Ned! Arya is described the same way, many, many Starks throughout the series and history are. it is just a red-herring.

    you are acting as if trying to figure this is out would be harder than R+L=J, but it isnt. If all of this were true it would have been the easiest thing in the world, because even I believed Ashara to be Jon's mother on my first read without really knowing shit baout the series.

  68. you really, really believe that Martin would say anything else than "he's a sibling" when refering to Jon? Why wouldn't he if that is what everyone in the books thinks, if it is the cannon we are told and if there is no definitive proof of anything else? He would be dumb to call him anything else.

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